Kriegsberichter Cuff-Title Question

[Hannibal Brooks]

Jooooonas, can you provide period photos of that cuff title being worn? I've only seen one so far, but haven't dated it yet. Cheers.

[Jooooonas]

[menju]

So I did my uniform like this: Waffenfarbe-lemon yellow and ,,Kriegsberichter des Heeres" cuff title on the right hand.

Just a short note... Propagandakompanie and Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-titles were placed on the left sleeve, you only need to look at most of the pictures with PK wearing cuff-titles (including the ones you have just posted). Thank you for posting the first picture, it was unknown to me until now.
Concerning the period of changing from Propagandakompanie to Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-titles, I have this information from Osprey MAA series book about German Army in WW2. Could I ask what is that source you mention about that change taking place in 1941?
Back to your recently posted pictures. The second picture is clearly dated after 1943, because of the Einheitsfeldmuetze 43 being worn. Is there any proof that the first picture is dated to 1941 (or at least prior 1943)?

It is extremely important we can clear this.

[Jooooonas]

Just a short note... Propagandakompanie and Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-titles were placed on the left sleeve, you only need to look at most of the pictures with PK wearing cuff-titles (including the ones you have just posted).

As you probably know - Wehrmacht soldiers used to wear all cuff titles on the right sleeve separating them from SS. LW also weared it on the right (prove:the same photos you posted some time before in this theme). About the ,,Propagandakompanie" cuff title you can read over there: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/Arm.Strf..htm . There are also photos with this cuff title on the right sleeve. For instance:


Or from the book ,,German Army Uniforms and Insignia 1939-1945" by Brian L. Davis:


So exceptions may prove the rule.

Concerning the period of changing from Propagandakompanie to Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-titles, I have this information from Osprey MAA series book about German Army in WW2. Could I ask what is that source you mention about that change taking place in 1941?

Can't finde the source now Probably somewhere in the internet
In Wehrmacht-awards forum there is such a post:

I know this is an older thread, but some pertinent information gleaned from a former member of a Propagandazug, who served from the French campaign through the end:

The textbooks tell us that until the end of 1942 PK members wore signal yellow Waffenfarbe and a PK cuff title, then in early 1943 they switched to "Mausgrau" or "Lichtgrau" and dropped the cuffband. Interestingly, his recollection is that yellow was indeed used early in the war, bu that he NEVER wore a cufftitle nor saw any on fellow troops in his unit. He said MAYBE some officers wore them, but none of the EM or NCOs. He also recalled that later in the war some PK soldiers were still sporting their old yellow shoulderboards despite the changeover, though he is remembers that all officers made the change to Mausgrau rather quickly-- he recalls himself and his comrades wearing the yellow boards well into the later part of the war.

Here it is just conjecture, but based on his understanding of how his PK operated, he believes a journalist attached to a combat unit would have been much more likely to wear a "Kriegsberichter des Heeres" cufftitle than a "Propagandakompanie" one.

Back to your recently posted pictures. The second picture is clearly dated after 1943, because of the Einheitsfeldmuetze 43 being worn. Is there any proof that the first picture is dated to 1941 (or at least prior 1943)?

Sorry, I don't have any information about the photos.
I hope all together we will find the truth

[menju]

Jooooonas you have posted some interesting stuff there. I have never seen Propagandakompanie cuff-tile worn on the right sleeve, but what about Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-title?
Interesting information about Yellow Waffenfarbe worn later in the war, thank you.

My guess is that PK Kompanien will display rather many exceptions, because of the fact that people involved were more than soldiers, they were reporters and their spirit was more independent.
But it seems to me according the pictures shown here that PK cuff-title could be worn on both sleeves and KBH cuff-title on the left sleeve only. Most of the time there was no cuff-title at all.

[Peterth PK]

Jonas: do you really have some Vorschrift on OFFICIAL replacing PK cuff allready in 1941 ??? i came out from what Menju wrote - that it was changed in same time as was replaced Waffenfarbe. maybe PK and KBH cuffs were worn together to I. 1943 ? my first post was only small trial to summarize problematic... for me PK cuff was worn on both sleeves, KBH only on left... but I have some photo, where is this maybe on right sleeve, but isnt clear if its KBH cuff ?
ps1. yellow Waffenfarbe after I. 1943 is also for me new thing - but, think it surely took some time to change it ? (same it was with SS-KB´s, when was Kurt Eggers established - in Normandy 44 was "double ct" still used !)
ps. on your Heeres impression, if it is pre 1943, judge from yellow soutache (abolished on 10th July 1942 and waffenfarbe (changed on 25. 1. 1943 x but with consideration on written above !) I rather would wear Marschstiefel, for this period they were still very typical !!!

[Jooooonas]

Jonas: do you really have some Vorschrift on OFFICIAL replacing PK cuff allready in 1941 ??? i came out from what Menju wrote - that it was changed in same time as was replaced Waffenfarbe. maybe PK and KBH cuffs were worn together to I. 1943 ? my first post was only small trial to summarize problematic... for me PK cuff was worn on both sleeves, KBH only on left... but I have some photo, where is this maybe on right sleeve, but isnt clear if its KBH cuff ?

Unfortunately, I don't have any official information. Have seen somewhere in the internent, but it can't be counted as serious source Could you please show us those photos?

ps. on your Heeres impression, if it is pre 1943, judge from yellow soutache (abolished on 10th July 1942 and waffenfarbe (changed on 25. 1. 1943 x but with consideration on written above !) I rather would wear Marschstiefel, for this period they were still very typical !!!

That was the end of the war, smth like 1944 or 45.

[Peterth PK]

Could you please show us those photos?

sorry, my mistake, here is a cutout of photo - did some research and its "only" GD cuff, there is Generalmajor Hasso von Manteuffel on this photo, there is one more photo with him being reported by Tonberichter) ... just in fast view it looked like KBH cufftitle on right sleeve...
once more sorry for that inaccuraccy and mystification... we are only humans

[menju]

Jooooonas, it seems to me in the light of what as been written recently your KBH uniform is a bit controversial. Firstly, the cuff-title Kriegsberichter des Heeres on the right sleeve. We have seen above that it might be the case of Propagandakompanie cuff-title (see pictures posted here), but we lack the same evidence for the Kriegsberichter des Heeres cuff-title. Secondly, you pointed out that you are representing KBH toward the end of the WW 2 (you wrote 1944 or 1945), which means that there should not be a soutache in Waffenfarbe on your cap (this has been pointed out rightly by Peterth PK), for this was abolished in 1942. I accept your suggestion that in some cases Yellow Waffenfarbe was worn even late in war. In this case Knobelbecher are possible, but ankle boots with gaiters are much more typical.
I will continue my research concerning the exact date when Waffenfarbe and cuff-titles were changed. You raised some very interesting questions here

[Botty]

As to which arm the Propagandakompanie cuff title was worn on, see my earlier thread:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10174

quite clearly showing it on EITHER arm in wartime photos held by the Bundesarchiv. So anyone being adamant it was worn on the left only is incorrect.

Heer troops could wear a cuff title on either arm depending upon the cuff title. Usually unit titles on the the right e.g. GD and 'profession' on the left e.g. feldgendarm. Remember Wehrmacht = Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.

As for Waffenfarbe. In 'The propaganda warriors' by Daniel Uziel a PK veteran is quoted as saying about the colour change in 1943: " as soon as we became a separate arm of service the officers waffenfarbe colour changed overnight. We enlisted men continued to wear our yellow for a long time until it could be changed".

Incidentally anyone doing this impression who has not at least read this book can not say they have properly researched the subject.

[Hannibal Brooks]

I agree with Botty - or don't wear one at all, as previously discussed.
If you want to read the Uziel book, here an abbreviated preview:
http://books.google.co.uk/booksid=1pKnP ... CFAQ6AEwBw

Or you can try and find a copy if you have around £65 to spare....

[Jooooonas]

According to some new (for me) information, I think I'm going to change smth in my uniform. About fate of the soutache after 1942 I haven't heard until this discussion and I think I'm going to remove it. And I'm going to sew the cuff title on the left sleeve - it's not that hard to do.

Let's keep searching

[Peterth PK]

super discussion, i´m very pleased
Botty, and was it valid also by Uffz., did they also change to grey as fast like Offz. ?
Jonas, if these are only small things like this, nothing hard to change them nobody´s perfect, and we are all trying to do our impreesions correct as possible... just small note, if you´re doing late war KBH, it would be also better with M43 Feldmuetze, and M40/41/43 Feldbluse, both was on war-end more typical for EM. (for Uffz. is M36, or tailored M43 no problem i think). but att all, in this period would be better to be an Uffz., but depends on evyrybody´s taste...

[Botty]

Botty, and was it valid also by Uffz., did they also change to grey as fast like Offz. ?

I don't know.

The quote reads a little as a world weary comment on officers who could afford to change ( and had to buy their own uniform) getting all excited about something that the others found unimportant. A bit like now when management get all excited about a company re-branding where as the workers just get on with doing what they have always done. So I guess Unteroffizieren would have to wait for a change of uniform like others who were provided a uniform from stores.

[menju]

Great discussion! So it seems cuff-titles could be worn on both sleeves, it depends on taste rather than regulation. I am also excited about delays concerning the waffenfarbe among uffz. and EM. after 1943. I thank Jooooonas for this valuable information. I learned a lot in these past few days and I feel excited (of course intellectually, and in a positive way)!