US and German ankle boots?

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Andy2
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US and German ankle boots?

Post by Andy2 »

Can anybody clearly explain the actual differences between US "rough out" ankle boots and German schnurschuhe? I do know the former sported rubber soles while the latter had steel heel clips and hobnails, but apart from that I can't really see any other difference between the two looking at photographs...
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

On the whole, there isnt a massive difference but when worn you can tell weather or not they are rough outs or ankle boots.

The giveaway signs are the sole around the edges. On the German ankle boots there is no lip unlike on the US
roughout's there are also 2 'studs' near the tongue that are also a noticeable difference.
I think if you are a vehicle owner, and for a health and safety reasons I can understand why you would want to use rough outs as you are less likely to slip but for everything else proper German ankle boots should be used (then again, they are in shor supply)

I hope that was of some help.


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Andy2
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Andy2 »

Thanks Sean, that quite helpful! The lip had escaped me, and the studs seem to be missing in some repros (see those up at SoF attached below).

So if properly dubbined and darkened up would they be acceptable as viable schnurschuhe options? I love to wear those in daily life and in the countryside but those hobnails aren't socially acceptable really, plus with Zugmeisterei's demise I can't find any good German ankle boots anyway.

Anybody been using US rough-outs as German substitutes?

cheers!
Andy
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

I personally would not go for the cheap US roughouts. I know a couple of people who have purchased them and they are rubbish. The soles have no give and generally start to fall off. I picked up a pair of the old ATF ones and they are still going strong.

I suppose though, it's what you require them for.

In my personal opinion though they are not a good alternative to Ankle boots. It's just like if you were to re-enact British - wearing Ammo boots with rubber soles would be frowned upon I'd have thought.
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Andy2
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Andy2 »

H'mmm yes I got to agree :roll:

But any good choices of German ankle boots without hobnails then?

Does anybody (reliable) in Europe offer them? Hero Collection in Poland do not seem interested in accepting single orders...
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

Hero collection don't seem interested in accepting orders full stop.

Sadly, we seem to have a low boot shortage at the moment and personally the only viable alternative at this moment in time is the Sturm boots in Europe. At least they have been produced in such numbers they are available. You could take the plunge with the Czech guy, but at £200 a pop for boots that nobody has 'road tested' does seem like a tall order, that is considering when the polish boots (considered the best low boots on the market) only retailed at £130.........
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Andy2 »

Were Thomas' ankle boots made by HC in Poland as I believe or by somebody else? If so, does anybody have a contact?

The Czech ones are waaay too expensive and don't look right to me at the toetip btw...

Are those offered by Julian of Epic Militaria the Sturm ones? They don't look too bad.

ciao!
Andy
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

I havent seen the Epic boots, but I would assume they are the Sturm boots.

The ones offered by Thomas are the HC boots from Poland. It seems odd, as there is a market out there for the low boots but the problems Richard Underwood had, as well as Thomas it does seem understandable why people especially in the west of europe may not want to deal with HC.

Does anyone know of a Polish supplier maybe? Maybe it would be easier if there was a contact in Poland?
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Andy2
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Andy2 »

I have seen some Forum members posting from Poland, maybe they can help?

Any special issues with the Sturm ankle boots that anybody knows of, btw? I'm going to rip the hobnails off and replace them with a rubber sole anyway...can't risk ruining the wooden flooring at home y'know :mrgreen:
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Stigroadie »

Are you 100% certain the HC boots are Polish?
Are you 100% certain the boots Thomas sold were not made by this 'new' Czech guy. They look very similar to me and we know he got boots from the Czechs. Very similar also to the boots RAU once sold. Perhaps that's because they are a fair reproduction and capture the look of a wartime boot? That is especially true if it turns out they are all by different makers?
It seems to hold a certain irony to me that the man who is troubled by the exact shape of the toe of a boot[how many makers, how many variations in shape??] would want to substitute a cheap crappy copy of an American ww2 boot for a good copy of a WW2 German boot?
The research looks to have been done on web sites selling repros?
Come on chaps, get a grip? Have some sole? :D
I'm looking at fair quality repros of each boot right now, RAU's expensive german and ATF's Rough out. They are similar in that they are both boots. Thats it.
The shape and construction of the 'rough out' differs in more ways than I care to list. Shape of the toe???? Nothing like the right shape in elevation or plan.
The construction of the back and sides are no where near the same. Rivets anyone?
The sole differ in more ways than just that one is rubber.
NOT a good or even 'it will do' substitution in my book.
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

Good points Stig and yes they are both boots but as re-enacters we certainly are a funny bunch. For exacmple just because a seller reproduces a Plane tree smock, does not always mean it's correct..........
I think they have just become known as the 'polish made boots', where they are made, well I would have assumed Poland but who knows. People spend lots of time researching there kit, and for me the boots are just as important. Yes you are right in what you say about the different manufacturers of boots during the war but sadly we do not have that luxury (maybe that's not the best way to put it :lol: ) but the problem we have is there isn't anyone retailing a set of quality boots. Unlike American roughouts there are quite a few places who do reproduce such boots to a high standard.


Also, we do not know weather or not this new Czech guy made the boots sold by RAU and Thomas but why bring a new set of boots onto the market when there was already a good pair available?
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Stigroadie »

Sean wrote:but the problem we have is there isn't anyone retailing a set of quality boots.
Wrong, there is, this 'NEW' Czech chap. They are a great looking repro of the low boot, expensive yes but that's not you argument.

High quality repros of an American boot will never be a good option for the German re-enactor, you must see that. It matters not how super accurate they are, they are not correct for use as a German boot. The worst copy of a German boot is a better bet.

We dont know that this new chap made boots for RAU and Thomas but that matters not if they are a good copy which I think they look to be.
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Sean
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by Sean »

I already made that point, obviously roughout's are not an alternative to Low boots.

Indeed that isn't my point. I like the new Czech boots, they look very well made but I would like to hear from someone as to how they stand up before forking out that amount of money.
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dagda
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by dagda »

The Czech ones are the ones Thomas sells!
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totenkopfverband
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Re: US and German ankle boots?

Post by totenkopfverband »

he sold i believe the czech ones before he switched to the polish hero collection lowboots.


anyway, for purpose of authenticity if you use US rough-outs as German low-boots you must consider the stitched soles that the German low-boots didn't have (at least the m37, m42 models). this alteration to the boot to make it resemble the German low-boots will cost you about $50-$80. you'll also have to consider which manufacturer of US low-boots to convert; i have no experience with ATF US rough-outs, but i hear they're a bit shoddy. I would rather get ATFs german low-boots and from the start have a better thicker sole placed on it whether you'll be using rubber soles for civilian use, or hobnails for authenticity.
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