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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:46 am 
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Its a sad fact that war memorials are defaced or damaged around the world, but heres a variation. The Oxenford Coomera RSL sub branch in SE Queensland on the 10/02 destroyed its own memorial.

The plaques attached to it were all privately funded and paid for by families of veterans. No consultation was entered into, nor family members contacted about what should happen to the plaques. As you can imagine it has incensed a great many WW2 and VN vets and their familes...... No explanation forth coming from Queensland State HQ, nor the two individuals of Oxenford Coomera RSL sub branch who initiated this ........

ANZAC Day 2009

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10/02

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:19 am 
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If I didn't know different, I would have thought it was a memorial to German soldiers, since they are the memorials that people can get away with destroying


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Quote:
gurowski
If I didn't know different, I would have thought it was a memorial to German soldiers, since they are the memorials that people can get away with destroying


And if I didn't know different I would know that your comment is perhaps the most ignorant and silly which I have heard in a very long time.
Just to put you right - memorials to German soldiers are respected and are at equal risk to the actions of thieves , grave robbers and the disrespect of the death as are Allied war graves .
You may have over looked the theft of bronzes from a number of war graves and memorials in Britain and overseas , perhaps you had no interest as they were not German .

I am sorry if my comments seem harsh but generally I do not suffer fools gladly and have no tolerance for statements of this kind , if you have an instance of a war grave memorial to German soldiers which has been destroyed in recent times and in which the police have not taken sufficient action to bring the perpetrators to book please post it up.
If you cannot do this I suggest you withdraw your comment , and do so without reservation.

As for the above example of destroying their own memorial , it would have been better than explaination was given and the area returned to grass.
I hope the plaques have been returned to those who funded them.
A stupid and ill considered act.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:10 pm 
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call me Mr Thickie.. but what is/ are the RSL?? :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Gren-Schell wrote:
call me Mr Thickie.. but what is/ are the RSL?? :roll:


The Aussie version of the British legion


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Quote:
I am sorry if my comments seem harsh but generally I do not suffer fools gladly and have no tolerance for statements of this kind ,


Thats OK, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

Quote:
if you have an instance of a war grave memorial to German soldiers which has been destroyed in recent times and in which the police have not taken sufficient action to bring the perpetrators to book please post it up.
If you cannot do this I suggest you withdraw your comment , and do so without reservation.


The memorial to the 1st Panzer corps springs to mind. There is another, but I dont remember the place at the moment, and I am not going to spend time researching it.
The issue of police not taking sufficient action is irrelevant, its the destruction of a memorial that is the issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:49 pm 
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A most unusual event, to say the least, to 'destroy' your own war memorial. Generally such memorials are sacrosanct, perhaps the RSL moved it somewhere else?

Mystifying..... :?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:58 pm 
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Quote:
And if I didn't know different I would know that your comment is perhaps the most ignorant and silly which I have heard in a very long time.



Perhaps if I had put the "tongue in cheek" smiley, you would have read my message in the context it was meant.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Location: AFRA - UK Nord
The monument to the Fallschirmjaeger in Crete sufered badly.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Sorry - RSL is Returned Services League - an organisation for Veterans, but sadly morphed into a money making machine off the back of "pokie" machines (one armed bandits, slot machines, call them what you will)

I rang State RSL HQ yesterday and of course "someone will call me back" which is code for "don't ring him back" - well its code for that in Weapons Licensing Branch / Queensland Police...but I digress. The two Individuals naturally have disappeared into smoke. I know that from trying to phone them and ask their side. I understand that the print and TV media are now involved so possibly thats why they have chosen not to explain their actions publicly.

Gary Cannon from Oxenford told me the situation late last week. He runs this shop / site:

http://www.quarterdeckmilitaria.com.au/

Gary's a VN vet and served in the RAN, active in the Vet community with medal mounting etc and members of the Southport Military Museum are also involved with this memorial. I don't consider it a beat up, more a lack of communication by two RSL members concerning - effectively - private property IE the privately funded plaques, and the apparent sanction of the destruction of the memorial by State RSL HQ.

Appears that the State RSL HQ my operate on the "Plausible deniability" excuse, or effectively cut the two indiviuals loose. In any event its a very good example of disrespecting your membership and the community.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Quote:
gurowski
Thats OK, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

That as may be but to date I don't see an impressive list of damaged or destroyed german war memorials being posted up.
As TacAide says to destroy their own is odd to say the least ...... and to do so without explaination is insane.

As for the destruction of german memorials - Crete has sufferred and should have been protected - the greeks did suffer at the hands of the occupation forces so it is little surprise that the memorial was damaged - my own view is that it should not have been.

Over the past year there have been numerous attacks on and theft from British war memorials in the Uk and attacks for gain abroad are not uncommon.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:31 am 
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I wasn't going to dip more than my toe in here but I must challenge one thing

Quote:
if you have an instance of a war grave memorial to German soldiers which has been destroyed in recent times and in which the police have not taken sufficient action to bring the perpetrators to book please post it up


The highlighted words indicate singular instance - Which I did when I posted about the Kreta FJ Denkmal - Now the goalposts change......

Probably the most infamous destruction was the memorial to the dead of the 1st SS-Panzer-Korps in Marienfels, which was deliberately destroyed by leftist extremists in April 2004 - this is the memorial Gurowski mentions.

There was a memorial to French Waffen-SS soldiers who had surrendered at the end of the war, but were executed on orders of Gen. Leclerc just prior to the end of hostilities in May 1945, near Bad Reichenhall. This memorial, which had stood peacefully for years, was removed not by leftists but by the local authorities in October 2007.

I attended friend's wedding in Bochum a few years ago and visited a Denkmal that had been vandalised - two large statues of soldiers had been stolen/removed.... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegerden ... ark_Bochum

Similarly I can post examples of swastikas sprayed on Jewish graves and monuments too....... It seems vandalism is non sectarian - everyone falls victim.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:11 am 
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Quote:
There was a memorial to French Waffen-SS soldiers who had surrendered at the end of the war, but were executed on orders of Gen. Leclerc just prior to the end of hostilities in May 1945, near Bad Reichenhall. This memorial, which had stood peacefully for years, was removed not by leftists but by the local authorities in October 2007.
[/quote]

I forgot about this one Paul, which is slack of me seeing as how I only visited in September


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:41 am 
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All good points PD, however I can't imagine the Hilfsgemeinschaft auf Gegenseitigkeit der Angehörigen der ehemaligen Waffen-SS desecrtating their own memorial.

Sadly the RSL seems more focussed on pokie machines (one armed bandIts / slot machines to you all in the UK) they advocating for its members. I wonder what the 1st AIF diggers would make of the RSL these days....not a lot I think.

I'm not sure of the motivation in this specific case, clearly its a contentious issue re-locating or re-vamping a memorial (lets hope its the latter), but very poor communication skils at the least.


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